Discussion:
Level 80
(too old to reply)
JK
2007-12-29 20:11:24 UTC
Permalink
How has the game changed since the new level limit went in? I personally
think that raising level limits slowly kill off the game. If you are
returning it's too much of a grind before you can go out with friends who
leveled up. Older content is farmed by a few blocking lower level players
from experiencing it (i.e. King Tormax).
the wharf rat
2007-12-29 21:56:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by JK
content is farmed by a few blocking lower level players
from experiencing it (i.e. King Tormax).
Well, that's been a problem ever since the first level 24 camped
the goblins in Butcherblock... It's got nothing to do with level caps,
really. The main thing raising the cap seems to do is further thin out
the opportunities for less than 80 players in terms of groups. When the
top level was closer to the bottom level I could take my casual level 55
cleric and group with anyone from 45-65. Now, it seems that the exponentially
tougher content and the higher level cap squeeze available group slots into
75 and higher, and "you can come sit on the ground while we PL our alts, sure,
just dont draw aggro k?" 1/2 :-)
Vladesch
2007-12-30 12:31:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by JK
How has the game changed since the new level limit went in? I personally
think that raising level limits slowly kill off the game. If you are
returning it's too much of a grind before you can go out with friends who
leveled up. Older content is farmed by a few blocking lower level players
from experiencing it (i.e. King Tormax).
They need to make sure everyone has to buy the expansions. Nothing new here.
Lunaren
2008-01-01 10:40:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by JK
How has the game changed since the new level limit went in? I personally
think that raising level limits slowly kill off the game. If you are
returning it's too much of a grind before you can go out with friends who
leveled up. Older content is farmed by a few blocking lower level players
from experiencing it (i.e. King Tormax).
At some point, they will probably have to look at providing a leveling
shortcut of some sort to ease reaching 70 or so, such that joining the
majority of remaining active players in a game this old is doable either for
someone new or existing player's alts.

DAoC allowed players with one level cap toon to start alts at something like
level 20 or 25 I think it was. More recently, WoW ramped up the experience
rate from levels 20 to 60 in a game that was already easy to level up in.

I don't think I like the idea of starting at a fixed level, skipping early
levels. I do like the idea of increasing the experience in the midrange
levels to make them go by more easily. I think they've done some great
things in making it a lot easier with reduced downtime, hotspots that
encourage the smaller numbers of those leveling to do so in common spots
making groups more likely to be possible, etc. But looking at the haul to 80
from zero on a new character today it would be nice if the levels from 50 to
70 in particular had the experience ramped up some.

Alternatively, expanding on the LoTD might be good also. I'd like to see it
go to an hour and I would also like to see any enabled account have it
available for ALL characters on that account. I'd also like to see it coded
such that if I delete some alt and roll a new one, the new one gets it on a
veteran account. I don't think this is a big deal, trivializes the game nor
unbalances it in any way. It's a great idea but I think they were too stingy
with it as well as the other vet aa.
Tim Smith
2008-01-01 20:33:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lunaren
At some point, they will probably have to look at providing a leveling
shortcut of some sort to ease reaching 70 or so, such that joining the
majority of remaining active players in a game this old is doable either for
someone new or existing player's alts.
DAoC allowed players with one level cap toon to start alts at something like
level 20 or 25 I think it was. More recently, WoW ramped up the experience
If you had a level 50 (which is the max level) character somewhere on
your account, then there was a "/level" command you could use on other
characters, that would, if they were under level 20, give them enough XP
to put them in level 20.

There were some limits, though. In particular, when they introduced new
classes, they started restricting /level on those classes. They would
remove the restriction when the classes had been in the game long enough
that plenty of people had reached high level with them.

There were some amusing consequences of this. Like level 20's wandering
around the newbie area, begging level 2's and 3's for silver so they
could afford a horse ride to a major city. :-) (The smart way to do it
was to not /level right away, but rather kill things to level 2 (takes
about 5 kills), then talk to a guard to get a kill task. The guard will
give you some local animal to kill. Kill it, then go /level, and come
back to the guard for your reward. He gives you a reward appropriate
for a level 20 kill task, not a level 2 kill task, and that gives you
plenty of money for a horse ride).

However, this kind of thing would not really help with the problem you
are trying to address, unless you could skip a lot of levels. Just
skipping 20 or so wouldn't make all that much difference on the way to
70 or 80.

City of Heroes has an interesting solution to the problem of your
friends being too high level for you to play with them. But first, a
very short note about powers in CoH. As you level up, you get new
powers, but your old powers also get stronger, so you don't stop using
them. It's not like EQ, where when you get your new spells, you are
likely to completely stop using some of your old spells.

CoH has the concept of a sidekick. Say you are a level 30 hero. I'm
level 10. We want to play together. You invite me to be your sidekick.
What happens then is that my powers are boosted to near level 30, when
I'm within a certain distance of you. I don't gain any new powers, so I
only have the powers that a level 10 of my class could have--but they
operate as if I were around 30. I believe other stats are boosted
appropriately, too. The net result is that I will be able to meaningful
contribute, and not be so fragile as to be a burden, on level 30 fights.

CoH also allows you to do it the other way. Instead of me being your
sidekick, you could be my mentor. That temporarily *lowers* your skills
and abilities to just above me level, so we can go on missions
appropriate to my level, and you can help. This is particularly nice.
Say I have a level 10 quest that I'm having trouble with. I could ask
my level 30 friend for help, and he can mentor me and help.

This kind of thing could work in EQ, with some tweaking of how spell
effects scale, and things like that.
--
--Tim Smith
c
2008-01-02 17:13:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Smith
City of Heroes has an interesting solution to the problem of your
friends being too high level for you to play with them. But first, a
very short note about powers in CoH. As you level up, you get new
powers, but your old powers also get stronger, so you don't stop using
them. It's not like EQ, where when you get your new spells, you are
likely to completely stop using some of your old spells.
EQ2 has this same idea - eventually, i think, nearly all spells get
replaced, but it might not be for 15 levels (and sometimes the older
version of the spell might be more powerful than the newer version of
the spell, until the newer one scales up also).
Post by Tim Smith
CoH has the concept of a sidekick. Say you are a level 30 hero. I'm
level 10. We want to play together. You invite me to be your sidekick.
What happens then is that my powers are boosted to near level 30, when
I'm within a certain distance of you. I don't gain any new powers, so I
only have the powers that a level 10 of my class could have--but they
operate as if I were around 30. I believe other stats are boosted
appropriately, too. The net result is that I will be able to meaningful
contribute, and not be so fragile as to be a burden, on level 30 fights.
That is FREAKING awesome. Helping your new friends in the same old
newbie zones sure wasn't fun, as far as games go.
Post by Tim Smith
CoH also allows you to do it the other way. Instead of me being your
sidekick, you could be my mentor. That temporarily *lowers* your skills
and abilities to just above me level, so we can go on missions
appropriate to my level, and you can help. This is particularly nice.
Say I have a level 10 quest that I'm having trouble with. I could ask
my level 30 friend for help, and he can mentor me and help.
And EQ2 has this same concept. It's proportional - if you're 10 and
being mentored by a lvl 40, you have a stronger ally. If you're being
mentored by a lvl 70+, your ally is basically a demi-god. It's a good
system. The mentee also gains a bonus to experience, in addition to
the indirect bonus of basically being powerleveled.
Post by Tim Smith
This kind of thing could work in EQ, with some tweaking of how spell
effects scale, and things like that.
--
--Tim Smith
It should *definitely* be in EQ1. The monster missions are a cheap
workaround. Why not just let it happen directly?

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