Ranger question

[the wharf rat]

Ok, so, the group: ranger, warrior, cleric, chanter,shaman, and
rogue. Ranger is pulling. Ranger comes back with snared mobs, and
proceeds to keep aggro for long enough to require multiple heals. Warrior
says in group "Can you use jolt, please?" Ranger says "Sorry, don't
have spell slot open for it. Why don't you taunt?"

Well, the warrior says he is taunting, but taunt fails a lot.
The ranger basically says tough, too bad you're not uber :-) Eventually
the cleric pulls heal aggro trying to keep the ranger puller/tank alive
and gets one rounded, the warrior says "bye, gonna go, ummm, work on
my baking or something..." and we break up.

Soooooo... My question is WHAT spells could that ranger have
needed more than jolt and what could we have done here besides letting
the cleric pull? :-) My understanding was that rangers ALWAYS used
jolt.

I have a feeling this is a case of "I did 20 levels last week
so of course I know how to play my class"

[Faned]

Post by the wharf rat
Ok, so, the group: ranger, warrior, cleric, chanter,shaman, and
rogue. Ranger is pulling. Ranger comes back with snared mobs, and
proceeds to keep aggro for long enough to require multiple heals. Warrior
says in group "Can you use jolt, please?" Ranger says "Sorry, don't
have spell slot open for it. Why don't you taunt?"
Well, the warrior says he is taunting, but taunt fails a lot.
The ranger basically says tough, too bad you're not uber :-) Eventually
the cleric pulls heal aggro trying to keep the ranger puller/tank alive
and gets one rounded, the warrior says "bye, gonna go, ummm, work on
my baking or something..." and we break up.
Soooooo... My question is WHAT spells could that ranger have
needed more than jolt and what could we have done here besides letting
the cleric pull? :-) My understanding was that rangers ALWAYS used
jolt.
I have a feeling this is a case of "I did 20 levels last week
so of course I know how to play my class"

Rangers, like most hybrids, only have 4 spells. Heal, snare, root, and...
make that three.

[the wharf rat]

Post by Faned
Rangers, like most hybrids, only have 4 spells. Heal, snare, root, and...
make that three.

And that spiky shield thing, Call of Mirth or whatever...

[Meldur]

Post by the wharf rat
Ok, so, the group: ranger, warrior, cleric, chanter,shaman, and
rogue. Ranger is pulling. Ranger comes back with snared mobs, and
proceeds to keep aggro for long enough to require multiple heals. Warrior
says in group "Can you use jolt, please?" Ranger says "Sorry, don't
have spell slot open for it. Why don't you taunt?"
Well, the warrior says he is taunting, but taunt fails a lot.
The ranger basically says tough, too bad you're not uber :-) Eventually
the cleric pulls heal aggro trying to keep the ranger puller/tank alive
and gets one rounded, the warrior says "bye, gonna go, ummm, work on
my baking or something..." and we break up.
Soooooo... My question is WHAT spells could that ranger have
needed more than jolt and what could we have done here besides letting
the cleric pull? :-) My understanding was that rangers ALWAYS used
jolt.
I have a feeling this is a case of "I did 20 levels last week
so of course I know how to play my class"

Usual spell line up on my 67,288 Ranger:

1.Snare
2.Heal
3.Root
4.Fire Nuke
5.Cold Nuke
6. to 8. is situational,sometimes its Regrowth or a Damageshield,but
there isnt much demand,either there is a class which can cover this
better or the players need the buffslot for more important stuff.
When tanking (rarely) I mem "Tangling Weeds"(0.8 sec cast time short
duration snare) to hold aggro.
When pulling I either use bow or Jolt.

Conclusion:the Ranger in your little story simply "sucked". =)
How can one not have enough spellslots or pull with snare is beyond
me.
It always surprises me,that I generate so small aggro with 5 procs
running at Weapon Affinity 5,even in pickupgroups with probably
mostly Bazaar equipped tanks the mobs rarely turn to me,this
changes the moment I dare to use a snare for pulling,even if the
tank manages to get aggro from me,I have it back some procs later.

Uland 67,288 Hunter

[the wharf rat]

Post by Meldur
How can one not have enough spellslots or pull with snare is beyond
me.

So the big problem was pulling with snare?

[Meldur]

Post by the wharf rat

Post by Meldur
How can one not have enough spellslots or pull with snare is beyond
me.

So the big problem was pulling with snare?

Of course.
Snare generates huge aggro,more than slows,as I learned in the last
weeks,since I got Earthcaller (procs 50% slow).
Mobs mostly seem to ignore slow even when it lands early,while
on the other hand a (resisted) snare at around 50% health make
them turn to me most of the time.
Not so sure about the slow aggro,maybe it has something to do with
that it is a proc,I notice Beastlords getting aggro all the time when
they (try to) slow.

Uland 67,288 Hunter

[Lief]

Post by Meldur

Post by the wharf rat

Post by Meldur
How can one not have enough spellslots or pull with snare is beyond
me.

So the big problem was pulling with snare?

Of course.
Snare generates huge aggro,more than slows,as I learned in the last

If he is pulling with ensnare and not entrap he is just stupid.

[Meldur]

Post by Lief

Post by Meldur

Post by the wharf rat

Post by Meldur
How can one not have enough spellslots or pull with snare is beyond
me.

So the big problem was pulling with snare?

Of course.
Snare generates huge aggro,more than slows,as I learned in the last

If he is pulling with ensnare and not entrap he is just stupid.

Hm,even with close to 300 AAs I always found something more useful
than to spent AA points on an ability I already posess,I have no
problems with "only" 8 spell slots or the mana cost of (En)snare.
That said,I was always under the impression that the AA snare works
like a spell snare according to aggro ?!

And as mentioned in another post in this thread Jolt is the way to
pull,maybe now with easy weapon setup switching enabled by
bandoliers using bow and a low damage/high range arrow is
another possibility,though I am already short of bandolier slots,
4 isnt enough,I would need about 8.

Uland 67,288 Hunter

[Lief]

Post by Meldur

Post by Lief

Post by Meldur

Post by the wharf rat

Post by Meldur
How can one not have enough spellslots or pull with snare is beyond
me.

So the big problem was pulling with snare?

Of course.
Snare generates huge aggro,more than slows,as I learned in the last

If he is pulling with ensnare and not entrap he is just stupid.

Hm,even with close to 300 AAs I always found something more useful
than to spent AA points on an ability I already posess,I have no
problems with "only" 8 spell slots or the mana cost of (En)snare.

What? You have invis dont you? Your bought inate camo? Saving a spell
slot is good. Plus is far less aggro than ensnare.

Post by Meldur
That said,I was always under the impression that the AA snare works
like a spell snare according to aggro ?!

Nope, see above.

Post by Meldur
And as mentioned in another post in this thread Jolt is the way to
pull,maybe now with easy weapon setup switching enabled by
bandoliers using bow and a low damage/high range arrow is
another possibility,though I am already short of bandolier slots,
4 isnt enough,I would need about 8.

Doesnt matter if you pull with jolt or an arrow really, if you shoot them
too hard you will get summoned though, depending on the mob you are
shooting. If the warrior has a clue / decent setup it shouldnt matter what
you pull with.

[Beal]

Post by Meldur

Post by Lief

Post by Meldur

Post by the wharf rat

Post by Meldur
How can one not have enough spellslots or pull with snare is beyond
me.

So the big problem was pulling with snare?

Of course.
Snare generates huge aggro,more than slows,as I learned in the last

If he is pulling with ensnare and not entrap he is just stupid.

Hm,even with close to 300 AAs I always found something more useful
than to spent AA points on an ability I already posess,I have no
problems with "only" 8 spell slots or the mana cost of (En)snare.
That said,I was always under the impression that the AA snare works
like a spell snare according to aggro ?!

Seems to for me. I bought entrap pretty early actually, maybe around
100 AAs. It was a better deal when ensnare was the best snare because
the extra spell slot is indeed nice. Do you keep nukes up? Tanging
weeds as well as your other snare? A root? Heal and jolt? It's easy
for me to run out of spell gems.

Post by Meldur
And as mentioned in another post in this thread Jolt is the way to
pull

I pull with snare a lot actually. If I'm chain pulling and need to
keep the next mob under control, if I am worried about an add, if the
tank is gimp and we need the mob slowed on incoming, etc. But this is
situational. I don't do this when the mobs hit for 1200+ and I dont do
it if the tank is agro-deficient. I pride myself on good chain
pulling, so even the time it takes to stop and cast jolt, for me, is
too damn long.

Post by Meldur
maybe now with easy weapon setup switching enabled by
bandoliers using bow and a low damage/high range arrow is
another possibility,though I am already short of bandolier slots,
4 isnt enough,I would need about 8.

No kidding. I have 1 for 1h weapons, 1 for my 2her, 1 for archery, 1
for earthcaller (could combine the last two I guess). I could still
use 2 more. One for my gate hammer as well as to switch to my weenie
bow for pulling summoners.

[Faeandar]

Post by the wharf rat
Ok, so, the group: ranger, warrior, cleric, chanter,shaman, and
rogue. Ranger is pulling. Ranger comes back with snared mobs, and
proceeds to keep aggro for long enough to require multiple heals. Warrior
says in group "Can you use jolt, please?" Ranger says "Sorry, don't
have spell slot open for it. Why don't you taunt?"
Well, the warrior says he is taunting, but taunt fails a lot.
The ranger basically says tough, too bad you're not uber :-) Eventually
the cleric pulls heal aggro trying to keep the ranger puller/tank alive
and gets one rounded, the warrior says "bye, gonna go, ummm, work on
my baking or something..." and we break up.
Soooooo... My question is WHAT spells could that ranger have
needed more than jolt and what could we have done here besides letting
the cleric pull? :-) My understanding was that rangers ALWAYS used
jolt.
I have a feeling this is a case of "I did 20 levels last week
so of course I know how to play my class"

Dunno about the spells but as a cleric I will heal the puller once,
then all my attention goes to tank. If puller dies, easy enough to
find another one.

I do make that known at the onset though, it's not a suprise to the
puller if it happens.

~F

[Don Woods]

Post by Faeandar
Dunno about the spells but as a cleric I will heal the puller once,
then all my attention goes to tank. If puller dies, easy enough to
find another one.

That was my reaction also. Especially since the puller in this
scenario was a ranger. "Oh look, the ranger died again!"

-- Don.

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[Lief]

Post by Don Woods

Post by Faeandar
Dunno about the spells but as a cleric I will heal the puller once,
then all my attention goes to tank. If puller dies, easy enough to
find another one.

That was my reaction also. Especially since the puller in this
scenario was a ranger. "Oh look, the ranger died again!"

5 years on, I dont play anymore, but still the same droll 'humour'

Get a clue please :p

[Faeandar]

Post by Lief

Post by Don Woods

Post by Faeandar
Dunno about the spells but as a cleric I will heal the puller once,
then all my attention goes to tank. If puller dies, easy enough to
find another one.

That was my reaction also. Especially since the puller in this
scenario was a ranger. "Oh look, the ranger died again!"

5 years on, I dont play anymore, but still the same droll 'humour'
Get a clue please :p

Oh come on, knock knock jokes still ammuse. Ranger-gate jokes are no
different...

But seriously, at the onset of the group I identify the tank, let
everyone know that he's the priority no matter what, and that the only
way the group survives is if, in order, the tank/cleric/slower
survive. There are exceptions of course but generally that's the
lowdown.

Usually I HoT the puller as he goes, after that it's a real gamble on
his part if he gets healed again. Twice in MPG I had to let the
puller die just to keep the tank up until slow landed. The way it
goes sometimes.

If there's a patch healer in the group though the rules change.

~F

[Lief]

Post by Faeandar
Oh come on, knock knock jokes still ammuse. Ranger-gate jokes are no
different...

No different, thats kinda my point :D Everyone dies easily, the clueless
more than anyone else. Class has no relevance anymore.

Post by Faeandar
But seriously, at the onset of the group I identify the tank, let
everyone know that he's the priority no matter what, and that the only
way the group survives is if, in order, the tank/cleric/slower
survive. There are exceptions of course but generally that's the
lowdown.

Yep, sounds fine, though again, these days lots of people can tank a mob
which has been slowed.

Post by Faeandar
Usually I HoT the puller as he goes, after that it's a real gamble on
his part if he gets healed again. Twice in MPG I had to let the
puller die just to keep the tank up until slow landed. The way it
goes sometimes.

A puller shouldn't be healed, you are just asking for trouble. Situations
vary, but the puller, if hes any good, should be aware of this.

Post by Faeandar
If there's a patch healer in the group though the rules change.

Rangers can patch heal these days :///

Anyway, what do I care, just got my Vanguard beta through FU all!!! :p

[the wharf rat]

Post by Lief
A puller shouldn't be healed, you are just asking for trouble. Situations

Well, gee... I heal the puller because

It's easy enough to hit DA and the AA heal, or even a group
heal after the tank locks things down.

Having the puller die greatly slows down the kill rate.

It's still cheaper to heal then it is to rez and rebuff.

And mostly because I hate to see anyone die even though I know
it's just a game and even in-game deaths don't really matter that much.

[Tony Evans]

Post by the wharf rat
Soooooo... My question is WHAT spells could that ranger have
needed more than jolt and what could we have done here besides letting
the cleric pull? :-) My understanding was that rangers ALWAYS used
jolt.

Pull with an arrow, it's easier.

What the warrior needs to do is,

1. tag with an arrow before the mob's in camp
2. engage with weapons before anything else
3. taunt once
4. use their best hate disc (incite or whatever)

Even with snare on the mob, that will almost always get aggro if the puller
knows what their job is - which is to get the mob to the warrior's feet and
stand until it's on the tank not them.

It's vital to tag and do some damage before using the hate disc, because
the raw hate from your first action to get onto the hate list is capped.

Pullers have a hate bonus from being the first one to get onto the hate
list, so you have to get over that.

I prefer my pullers not to 'jolt', because when the taunt does land, I then
have an aggro boost over the rest of the group. However, pullers need to
adapt, and if the tank is struggling for aggro, they should consider using
jolt and not pulling with snare (an arrow is enough).

The risk with jolt is that it lowers the puller's hate and the next person
on the list is .... the cleric.

[Lief]

Post by the wharf rat
Ok, so, the group: ranger, warrior, cleric, chanter,shaman, and
rogue. Ranger is pulling. Ranger comes back with snared mobs, and
proceeds to keep aggro for long enough to require multiple heals. Warrior
says in group "Can you use jolt, please?" Ranger says "Sorry, don't
have spell slot open for it. Why don't you taunt?"
Well, the warrior says he is taunting, but taunt fails a lot.
The ranger basically says tough, too bad you're not uber :-) Eventually
the cleric pulls heal aggro trying to keep the ranger puller/tank alive
and gets one rounded, the warrior says "bye, gonna go, ummm, work on
my baking or something..." and we break up.
Soooooo... My question is WHAT spells could that ranger have
needed more than jolt and what could we have done here besides letting
the cleric pull? :-) My understanding was that rangers ALWAYS used
jolt.
I have a feeling this is a case of "I did 20 levels last week
so of course I know how to play my class"

Well I usually pulled with jolt, and snared with Entrap (aa)which is far
less aggro than Ensnare.

I would then walk behind the warrior and stand next to him until he had
aggro, if the warrior has decent taunt weapons it should only take a hit or
two.

Then back off, and shoot / melee as normal.

Its not hard really.

The spells I usually had when pulling were root, nuke, nuke, ensnare, heal,
SoE, HoN, jolt.

No reason not to have jolt up if you need it.

[RangerGirl]

Almost missing the point all together, ranger was using the wrong spell to
pull with, not whether he should be using Jolt/Cinder Jolt which have the
uncanny knack of not landing when you want them. I pull Creator very happily
with any of the dispell magic line, not much difference in range and very
easy to peel off by any tank class on the way back, plus has chance of
knocking out a defensive buff at same time. A single arrow hit is more than
enough to peel the mob off or the first opening barage of melee by your
waiting tank. Carry a Jolt if you want, but a root spell is just as good to
drop mob off infront of your tank to taunt or slap around.

[Lief]

Post by RangerGirl
Almost missing the point all together, ranger was using the wrong spell to
pull with, not whether he should be using Jolt/Cinder Jolt which have the
uncanny knack of not landing when you want them. I pull Creator very happily
with any of the dispell magic line, not much difference in range and very
easy to peel off by any tank class on the way back, plus has chance of
knocking out a defensive buff at same time. A single arrow hit is more than
enough to peel the mob off or the first opening barage of melee by your
waiting tank. Carry a Jolt if you want, but a root spell is just as good to
drop mob off infront of your tank to taunt or slap around.

It doesnt matter if a spell is resisted, you will still get aggro.

Also, you lose aggro with jolt type spells whether the spell is resisted or
not (see graffes / concussion).

[RangerGirl]

Better tell the mobs that used to keep coming after me after a resisted Jolt
that their hate had been reduced, somehow, I dont think they were checking
any (graphs?) graffes that said a failed casting reduced it.

Other point about using a debuff, much less chance of getting summoned back
for an intimate chat as you've still to do damage, bit like a bard using
their debuff song to bring a ticked off rather than furious mob in behind
them.

[Tony Evans]

Post by RangerGirl
Better tell the mobs that used to keep coming after me after a resisted Jolt
that their hate had been reduced, somehow, I dont think they were checking
any (graphs?) graffes that said a failed casting reduced it.

Graffe's is the wizard website, they did extensive testing with Concusion
to demonstrate that even when fully resisted, you could still drop aggro on
a mob by a constant amount, vs. when not resisted.

The hate component of a spell is applied regardless of whether the spell is
resisted or not, and the hate component of Concussion is negative.

The assumption was that Jolt behaves in the same way. I don't know if it's
been tested.

However, Jolt and Concussion are hate reducers, you still have hate at the
end, and no spell can reduce your hate to 0 other than those which memwipe
the target.

Post by RangerGirl
Other point about using a debuff, much less chance of getting summoned back
for an intimate chat as you've still to do damage, bit like a bard using
their debuff song to bring a ticked off rather than furious mob in behind
them.

Dispell is an excellent way to pull mobs, especially in DoN missions with
enchanter drakes around, or places like Tipt and Vxed where the mobs are
brutal enough, never mind when hasted by a 'friendly' Ikaav or Mastruq.

[Lief]

Post by RangerGirl
Better tell the mobs that used to keep coming after me after a resisted Jolt
that their hate had been reduced, somehow, I dont think they were checking
any (graphs?) graffes that said a failed casting reduced it.

It will still give you aggro on a mob which was still indifferent.

Post by RangerGirl
Other point about using a debuff, much less chance of getting summoned back
for an intimate chat as you've still to do damage, bit like a bard using
their debuff song to bring a ticked off rather than furious mob in behind
them.

Yep, I agree, I used dispell / annul myself on occasion, dont really like
using it when other mobs are wandering around due to the cast time.

If you have any other ranger related questions or ideas, feel free to gimme
a shout on msn ***@hotmail.com (which goes for anyone on this
thread, btw), as I dont check here much.

[h***@hotmail.com]

Post by the wharf rat
Ok, so, the group: ranger, warrior, cleric, chanter,shaman, and
rogue. Ranger is pulling. Ranger comes back with snared mobs, and
proceeds to keep aggro for long enough to require multiple heals. Warrior
says in group "Can you use jolt, please?" Ranger says "Sorry, don't
have spell slot open for it. Why don't you taunt?"
Well, the warrior says he is taunting, but taunt fails a lot.
The ranger basically says tough, too bad you're not uber :-) Eventually
the cleric pulls heal aggro trying to keep the ranger puller/tank alive
and gets one rounded, the warrior says "bye, gonna go, ummm, work on
my baking or something..." and we break up.
Soooooo... My question is WHAT spells could that ranger have
needed more than jolt and what could we have done here besides letting
the cleric pull? :-) My understanding was that rangers ALWAYS used
jolt.
I have a feeling this is a case of "I did 20 levels last week
so of course I know how to play my class"

Let's see. Snare/ensnare, tangling weeds, flame lick, root, his best
heal, Sow, 2 fast casting (0.5 cast time, 30 sec recast) nukes and...

Taunt is also not some super aggro mechanism (so the Ranger was wrong
there). If the ranger kept fighting the mob, then the combo of probable
dual wield hits, kicks (also aggro), nukes, versus the warrior's taunt
and usually lower dps would keep the aggro on the ranger and not let
the warrior get aggro (don't know about warrior disciplines).

It is also true that the warrior should start trying to get aggro
before the puller arrives in camp. The ranger can help by rooting the
mob and stepping out of reach so the mob starts to attack the warrior.

[Lief]

<***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:***@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The ranger can help by rooting the

Post by h***@hotmail.com
mob and stepping out of reach so the mob starts to attack the warrior.

Rooting a mob you have pulled is stupid, imho.

[Tony Evans]

Post by h***@hotmail.com
there). If the ranger kept fighting the mob, then the combo of probable
dual wield hits, kicks (also aggro), nukes, versus the warrior's taunt
and usually lower dps would keep the aggro on the ranger and not let
the warrior get aggro (don't know about warrior disciplines).

My warrior generates more hate / second than a ranger with equivalent gear
doing anything, except snaring or using flame lick.

Post by h***@hotmail.com
It is also true that the warrior should start trying to get aggro
before the puller arrives in camp. The ranger can help by rooting the
mob and stepping out of reach so the mob starts to attack the warrior.

A warrior should get on the hate list before using their innate hate
disciplines to avoid the raw hate cap on first aggro.

If the ranger shoots the mob with one arrow, and the warrior shoots the mob
with two arrows, the warrior has more hate.

If the ranger shoots the mob with one arrow, the warrior uses one arrow,
and the ranger stands behind the warrior, the warrior will get aggro purely
through proximity initially, and can then guild a hate lead using discs.

There's a reason or two why Shadowknight's snare incoming mobs ...

[Faeandar]

On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:40:22 +0100, Tony Evans

Post by Tony Evans

Post by h***@hotmail.com
there). If the ranger kept fighting the mob, then the combo of probable
dual wield hits, kicks (also aggro), nukes, versus the warrior's taunt
and usually lower dps would keep the aggro on the ranger and not let
the warrior get aggro (don't know about warrior disciplines).

My warrior generates more hate / second than a ranger with equivalent gear
doing anything, except snaring or using flame lick.

Post by h***@hotmail.com
It is also true that the warrior should start trying to get aggro
before the puller arrives in camp. The ranger can help by rooting the
mob and stepping out of reach so the mob starts to attack the warrior.

A warrior should get on the hate list before using their innate hate
disciplines to avoid the raw hate cap on first aggro.
If the ranger shoots the mob with one arrow, and the warrior shoots the mob
with two arrows, the warrior has more hate.
If the ranger shoots the mob with one arrow, the warrior uses one arrow,
and the ranger stands behind the warrior, the warrior will get aggro purely
through proximity initially, and can then guild a hate lead using discs.
There's a reason or two why Shadowknight's snare incoming mobs ...

Are SK's still considered tanks? It's not an ass question, it's just
that in the last few months every SK I've grouped with that was the MT
was a mana sieve on heals. But the warriors and Paladins pretty much
held their own nicely.

~F

[Tony Evans]

Post by Faeandar
Are SK's still considered tanks? It's not an ass question, it's just
that in the last few months every SK I've grouped with that was the MT
was a mana sieve on heals. But the warriors and Paladins pretty much
held their own nicely.

Equivalent geared SK's and Paladins tank at the same level - the difference
can often be pre-slow, the Paladin is mitigating more damage due to stuns.

It may be easier to better gear Paladin's, which might account for the
differences you're seeing. Also, I find Shadowknights keen on spending AA
on their harmtouch and not on their defensive AA's.

We've a few SK's in our guild, all 67+ who tank anything guild groups go
and do fine, although probably only one of them is RSS capable. For quite
a few DoN missions, my warrior was DPS in the group with the Shadowknight,
because his AC was far superior.

So are they still considered tanks - yes - if they've done the work to get
gear and the AA required in the high-end XP zones. Paladins can cheat a
little bit by mitigating incoming damage via stuns.

[Lief]

Post by Faeandar

Post by Tony Evans
There's a reason or two why Shadowknight's snare incoming mobs ...

Are SK's still considered tanks? It's not an ass question, it's just
that in the last few months every SK I've grouped with that was the MT
was a mana sieve on heals. But the warriors and Paladins pretty much
held their own nicely.

Anyone can tank. Of course SK's can.

Just have to remember the difference between top and bottom geared is likely
to be higher these days.

I guess, I haven't played for months..

/em spews more tripe into the ether.....

[Faeandar]

Post by Lief

Post by Faeandar

Post by Tony Evans
There's a reason or two why Shadowknight's snare incoming mobs ...

Are SK's still considered tanks? It's not an ass question, it's just
that in the last few months every SK I've grouped with that was the MT
was a mana sieve on heals. But the warriors and Paladins pretty much
held their own nicely.

Anyone can tank. Of course SK's can.
Just have to remember the difference between top and bottom geared is likely
to be higher these days.
I guess, I haven't played for months..
/em spews more tripe into the ether.....

Anyone can tank for about 1.7 seconds. Of course it's not so much
tanking at that point as hitting auto attack and then seeing

Loading, Please Wait...............

~F

[ppp ppp]

Post by Faeandar

Post by Lief

Post by Faeandar

Post by Tony Evans
There's a reason or two why Shadowknight's snare incoming mobs ...

Are SK's still considered tanks? It's not an ass question, it's just
that in the last few months every SK I've grouped with that was the MT
was a mana sieve on heals. But the warriors and Paladins pretty much
held their own nicely.

Anyone can tank. Of course SK's can.
Just have to remember the difference between top and bottom geared is likely
to be higher these days.
I guess, I haven't played for months..
/em spews more tripe into the ether.....

Anyone can tank for about 1.7 seconds. Of course it's not so much
tanking at that point as hitting auto attack and then seeing
Loading, Please Wait...............
~F

Rangers are better tanks than many believe, I've been in alot of high groups
where the rangers taken aggro from the main tank and held it much better,
plus according to the clerics the mana drain has been about the same, in the
end it all comes down to gear.

[the wharf rat]

Post by ppp ppp

~F

Rangers are better tanks than many believe, I've been in alot of high groups

Rangers make pretty good tanks on mobs that don't one round them.
Sometimes you need a real warrior to stnad there long enough.

[Tony Evans]

Post by ppp ppp
Rangers are better tanks than many believe, I've been in alot of high groups
where the rangers taken aggro from the main tank and held it much better,
plus according to the clerics the mana drain has been about the same, in the
end it all comes down to gear.

In equivalent gear, fighting challenging content, rangers are worse thanks
than warriors (in terms of mana for healing).

In better gear than the warrior, fighting challenging content, sometimes
rangers are able to tank more efficiently - but this is true of any class.
I spent 3 hours in WoS with the cleric as main tank and main healer, chain
killing faster than I have done before or since.

In equivalent gear on trivial content, any class can tank.

Comparisons are only useful when taking into account a similar level of
gear, progression, levels and AA.

I've been in a lot of high groups where my warrior loses aggro to no one
and tanks better than any other character in the group.

My level 70 raid geared wizard tanked for a group in BoT when the MT was
afk, for about 30 minutes, it was more efficient than letting the 62nd
level SK tank.

[stanmann]

Post by the wharf rat
Ok, so, the group: ranger, warrior, cleric, chanter,shaman, and
rogue. Ranger is pulling. Ranger comes back with snared mobs, and
proceeds to keep aggro for long enough to require multiple heals. Warrior
says in group "Can you use jolt, please?" Ranger says "Sorry, don't
have spell slot open for it. Why don't you taunt?"
Well, the warrior says he is taunting, but taunt fails a lot.
The ranger basically says tough, too bad you're not uber :-) Eventually
the cleric pulls heal aggro trying to keep the ranger puller/tank alive
and gets one rounded, the warrior says "bye, gonna go, ummm, work on
my baking or something..." and we break up.
Soooooo... My question is WHAT spells could that ranger have
needed more than jolt and what could we have done here besides letting
the cleric pull? :-) My understanding was that rangers ALWAYS used
jolt.
I have a feeling this is a case of "I did 20 levels last week
so of course I know how to play my class"

That sounds like exactly it. Sounds like a tank/ranger problem since
the tank couldn't get agro and the ranger couldn't dump it. Any
compentent high agro class has tools and techniques for dumping agro
when necessary. Some of these techniques reduce DPS, but that is ok.

[the wharf rat]

Post by stanmann
the tank couldn't get agro and the ranger couldn't dump it. Any

Actually the tank *could* get aggro, just for a second. Then
our mob would turn right back to the ranger... I actually think the
tank was fine and the ranger wasn't ummm totally competent :-)

[Beal]

Post by the wharf rat
Ok, so, the group: ranger, warrior, cleric, chanter,shaman, and
rogue. Ranger is pulling. Ranger comes back with snared mobs, and
proceeds to keep aggro for long enough to require multiple heals. Warrior
says in group "Can you use jolt, please?" Ranger says "Sorry, don't
have spell slot open for it. Why don't you taunt?"

This guy sounds like an idiot. But just wanted to point out one thing.
Sometimes a Ranger can get very, very annoyed with a tank who cannot
produce any hate. It is the Ranger's job to keep hate low at the
beginning of the fight but the tank's job after that, the way I see it.
If you have to keep jolting throughout, you are seriously reducing
your DPS. Once again, this guy is probably an idiot, and a Ranger
should ALWAYS have jolt up. Heck I keep it up when soloing.

Post by the wharf rat
Soooooo... My question is WHAT spells could that ranger have
needed more than jolt and what could we have done here besides letting
the cleric pull? :-) My understanding was that rangers ALWAYS used
jolt.

I do run out of spells slots, actually. I like to keep a heal, jolt, 2
nukes, harmo, tangling weeds, earthen embrace, and root up. If mobs
are tashing, cure poison, if there is a necro, regen, if the tank is
whining for a DS, then my DS, if I am tanking or may need to grab agro,
flame lick, etc.. So even with 9 spell slots I can find myself wanting
10. But let's just say that if I need to rebuff, I drop the nukes, not
jolt.