Enchanter Slow Line

[norm]

I'm about to ding 57, and I can't see any compelling reason to use Forlorn
Deeds over Shiftless Deeds. Here's my reasoning (I have no idea how these
scale above 60):

Tepid Deeds: Level 24, 100 mana, 50% slow at level 60.
Shiftless Deeds: Level 44, 200 mana, 65% slow at level 60.
Forlorn Deeds: Level 57, 225 mana, 70% slow at level 60.

Now 25 mana isn't a lot, but it would add up over time. Shiftless and
Forlorn both have the same duration and same cast time, so those aren't a
consideration. I guess the question is: Is 5% really a big enough
difference to justify using more mana?

[@ndrew]

Post by norm
Tepid Deeds: Level 24, 100 mana, 50% slow at level 60.
Shiftless Deeds: Level 44, 200 mana, 65% slow at level 60.
Forlorn Deeds: Level 57, 225 mana, 70% slow at level 60.
Now 25 mana isn't a lot, but it would add up over time. Shiftless and
Forlorn both have the same duration and same cast time, so those aren't a
consideration. I guess the question is: Is 5% really a big enough
difference to justify using more mana?

The short and simple answer to your question is yes. the slow line of
spells is to stop mitigated damage on fellow party members. By using a
higher slow you will save the cleric mana and possible group downtime adding
to more kills exp etc.

The slow is worth it even at 5%.

regards
@ndrew

[Lance Berg]

Post by norm
I'm about to ding 57, and I can't see any compelling reason to use Forlorn
Deeds over Shiftless Deeds. Here's my reasoning (I have no idea how these
Tepid Deeds: Level 24, 100 mana, 50% slow at level 60.
Shiftless Deeds: Level 44, 200 mana, 65% slow at level 60.
Forlorn Deeds: Level 57, 225 mana, 70% slow at level 60.
Now 25 mana isn't a lot, but it would add up over time. Shiftless and
Forlorn both have the same duration and same cast time, so those aren't a
consideration. I guess the question is: Is 5% really a big enough
difference to justify using more mana?

Lets take a mob who does 10,000 damage per minute on average, unslowed.

Slow him with Tepid Deeds, he does 5000 damage per minute

Slow him with Shiftless Deeds, he does 3500 damage per minute

Slow him with Forlorn Deeds he does 3000 damage per minute

While you might think that 5% represents 1/20th less damage, in reality
it represents 1/7th less damage.

Going from Tepid to Shiftless cost you twice as much mana and bought you
1/3rd% less damage, going from Shiftless to Forlorn costs only 1/8th
more mana and buys you 1/7th less damage, its actually a -better-
bargain than the Tepid to Shiftless deal!

In case fractions aren't your thing:

For our example above, 100 mana buys you 5000 damage (slowing versus not
slowing): thats 50 damage per point of mana spent

100 more mana buys you 1500 damage: 15 damage per point of mana spent

25 more mana buys you 500 damage: 20 damage per point of mana spent

If enchanter mana is at a premium and healer mana isn't (and the tank
isn't in danger of dying) its arguably a better plan to stick with Tepid
deeds, enabling you to slow 2 mobs for what it would cost you to slow
one with Shiftless.

But to use Shiftless instead of Forlorn will only allow you to slow 9
mobs instead of 8.

And its rarely enchanter mana thats the bottleneck for a group, more
often its the healer's mana that controls the pace the group can set.
Spending the extra 25 mana per mob should translate into less healing
needed per minute, in effect transfering some of your mana to the
healer, who probably needs it more than you do.

Splendid One, 58 gnomage, Firiona Vie





ps: I can't find the flaw in my logic above, but applying it to overall
mana expenditure, I get 50 damage saved per mana spent for Tepid Deeds,
32.5 damage saved per mana spent for Shiftless Deeds, and 31.111...
damage saved per mana spent for Forlorn Deeds.

Since the extra 25 mana spent on Forlorn is more mana efficient than the
extra 100 mana spent on Shiftless was, why isn't that "savings" slighly
higher than 32.5, instead of slightly lower?

[norm]

"Lance Berg" <***@dejazzd.com> wrote in message news:***@dejazzd.com...
<snip numbers>

Thanks. That's what I was looking for, I hadn't thought of it in those
terms but I knew someone here would have some good insight.

Post by Lance Berg
If enchanter mana is at a premium and healer mana isn't (and the tank
isn't in danger of dying) its arguably a better plan to stick with Tepid
deeds, enabling you to slow 2 mobs for what it would cost you to slow
one with Shiftless.

I do use Tepid in groups where mobs are dying quickly. In that type of
situation it's usually my mana that's lower than the cleric's, since he's
dropping, what, 400 mana for a CH every few minutes while I'm faithfully
slowing each mob :-)

[Graeme Faelban]

Post by norm
I'm about to ding 57, and I can't see any compelling reason to use
Forlorn Deeds over Shiftless Deeds. Here's my reasoning (I have no
Tepid Deeds: Level 24, 100 mana, 50% slow at level 60.
Shiftless Deeds: Level 44, 200 mana, 65% slow at level 60.
Forlorn Deeds: Level 57, 225 mana, 70% slow at level 60.
Now 25 mana isn't a lot, but it would add up over time. Shiftless and
Forlorn both have the same duration and same cast time, so those
aren't a consideration. I guess the question is: Is 5% really a big
enough difference to justify using more mana?

Look at it this way to make your decision.

Say unslowed mob does 100 DPS.

At 50% slow, he would do 50 DPS.

At 65% slow, he would do 35 DPS.

At 70% slow, he would do 30 DPS.

Over the long haul, Forlorn will reduce the damage done by 1/7th compared
to Shiftless. Even though the slow is only 5% more, it actually reduces
the damage the mob inflicts from melee by over 14% for the cost of 25
additional mana. For most xp grouping, nobody is likely to really notice
the difference, but, over time it does add up.

[John Gordon]

Post by norm
I'm about to ding 57, and I can't see any compelling reason to use Forlorn
Deeds over Shiftless Deeds. Here's my reasoning (I have no idea how these
Tepid Deeds: Level 24, 100 mana, 50% slow at level 60.
Shiftless Deeds: Level 44, 200 mana, 65% slow at level 60.
Forlorn Deeds: Level 57, 225 mana, 70% slow at level 60.
Now 25 mana isn't a lot, but it would add up over time. Shiftless and
Forlorn both have the same duration and same cast time, so those aren't a
consideration. I guess the question is: Is 5% really a big enough
difference to justify using more mana?

My 61 enchanter uses Shiftless over Forlorn because it's a faster
cast (due to a Spell Haste II item.) When fighting mobs that can
kill the tank in a few lucky rounds if they're unslowed, it's much
more important to get the fight under control QUICKLY. After slow
lands, 65% vs 70% really just means a bit more of the cleric's
mana.

---
John Gordon "Your hat makes baby Brell cry."
***@panix.com -- James Grahame in alt.games.everquest

[Vladesch]

Post by norm
I'm about to ding 57, and I can't see any compelling reason to use Forlorn
Deeds over Shiftless Deeds. Here's my reasoning (I have no idea how these
Tepid Deeds: Level 24, 100 mana, 50% slow at level 60.
Shiftless Deeds: Level 44, 200 mana, 65% slow at level 60.
Forlorn Deeds: Level 57, 225 mana, 70% slow at level 60.
Now 25 mana isn't a lot, but it would add up over time. Shiftless and
Forlorn both have the same duration and same cast time, so those aren't a
consideration. I guess the question is: Is 5% really a big enough
difference to justify using more mana?

Its not realy 5% difference... let me explain....
A 65% slowed mob atacks at 35% speed
A 70% slowed mob attacks at 30% speed

The difference in dps is 14%. Its not a lot, but certainly worth the 25
mana.
Also if youre slowing mezzed mobs (as you should) and someone wakes it, that
14% might be the difference between a remez and an interrupt/wipeout.

I still use tepid deeds a lot for ldon. The mobs dont hit as hard, die
faster, and forlorn deeds is just to slow and expensive in some groups. It
depends on the group.